The Radio 5 Live Investigates programme has tackled the Work Programme and its predecessors several times. Today they were looking at reports that people are being pressured into declaring themselves self-employed simply to get an outcome for the providers, and on the promise that their benefits would actually be higher. No providers were named, but by the end of the programme it was said that 10 different providers had been accused.
Did we learn anything? A number of WP clients, two of them on ESA, told of being pressured from very early in their WP experience that they should go self-employed, not because they had any viable business in mind but because they could get more in benefits by claiming Working Tax Credits. They were given totally inaccurate figures, according to Sue Royston of the CAB, and were being led into a very dangerous situation where the fact that they're not working the requisite number of hours results in a clawback of thousands of pounds. People spoke about advisers being totally clueless and only driven by the need to get people signed off. One WP client, an unemployed project manager, faced an "adviser" who didn't know what a project manager was and admitted she couldn't help him, but the office rang a bell, literally, whenever someone signed off.
Kirsty McHugh of the ERSA (the industry's trade body) said she was surprised. She corrected some of the misinformation - the providers only get an outcome payment after 6 months, not immediately as had been said. But there was no excuse for bad advice, and people should complain to the provider if they felt they had been wrongly advised. The researcher was able to point out that people are frightened to complain, and would not use their real names on this programme. McHugh was then guilty of what I'm seriously tempted to call a lie - that WP providers are not able to sanction anybody.
Mark Hoban wasn't available, and the DWP said that there were always payment checks and a complaints process. Stephen Timms, for Labour, had nothing useful to say.
What came out of this investigation was that the taxpayer is being ripped off in at least two ways. WP companies are claiming outcome payments they are not entitled to; and WTC is being paid falsely. There's also the problem that the government is putting out false figures on jobs.
One thing that wasn't mentioned but which I'm wondering about; is agency work (which has always been regarded as casual work and so doesn't attract an outcome payment) being reclassified as self-employment? I know that supply teaching agencies have forced their clients to become self-employed, so shifting the costs of National Insurance and administration of tax onto the client. The same seems to be true of nursing agencies. Is it happening in other areas as well? If so, it's another serious distortion of the figures.
Come on at some time somebody will be thrown under the bus,It is like musical chairs,Cameron keeps promising in 2015(after the election)that things will change,this beast called the WP is a lost cause. As the saying goes if you are in a hole stop digging.
ReplyDeleteOne area I'd like to have seen tackled is the support or rather lack of it for those wishing to go genuinely self employed. The help available for those looking to start their own enterprises is often carried out via 3rd parties. The results can be hit and miss at best.
ReplyDeleteThere are business related agencies that can help in this arena. Sadly, they are under utilised and often not even made aware of to WP clients. As per usual, the govt thinks the WP is a one-stop-shop solution to employment issues.
I'd like to be self-employed but as I've said before, on the WP the only advice I am allowed is from the WP themselves because they have the contract to get me into work. The JC told me this, I assume they are correct. So the fact there are other agencies available is of no help to me (or anyone else on the WP) at all.
DeleteSome organisations are sub-contracted by the providers to give specialist help and advice. But that costs.
DeleteI recently attended a Work Programme meeting. I heard somebody reply that the reason why he wasn't able to find a job was because there were none available, The provider staff member was very bellicose stating that there were jobs and she had the statistics to prove it.
ReplyDeleteShe made a lot of reference to the hidden job market, and the standard "I know somebody who" examples of people who have found employment.
Could you please post some links to the official statistics on the work programme success rates, any information on the hidden job market, and also any links to how unemployment statistics are compiled would be appreciated.
I don't want to quarrel with anybody, but nor do I want to be treated like a moron, and your assistance would be appreciated.
We reported the results in November. You can see them on the Guardian site here. http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/nov/27/data-work-programme-failures
DeleteThere's no information on "the hidden job market" because it only means that providers can sometimes arrange with employers to interview WP people without advertising the vacancy, or can persuade an employer to take somebody on a work placement which might, conceivably, lead to a job. Try the DWP or ONS sites for info on how stats are compiled.
It's no use arguing that there are no jobs available, despite the fact that it's true in many areas. There are always vacancies, just not ones you can apply for.
ARGH ARGH the standard if you have a problem with your provider go to your provider excuse. They may do a review and find everything is golden and rainbows fill the air. The providers have a reason to ignore any complaints, We cant complain to the job centre as they are not involved we dare not complain to the provider, we cant complain to the ICE because we have to complain to the provider first. Add to that the threats you feel if you dare speak out who can we really speak too No one seems to want to listen to the unemployed.
ReplyDeleteYour mp's must get hundreds of complaints every week, the only people we can talk to is people on boards like this, on forums on twitter and spread what we know. This feels like an uphill struggle and i have come close a few times to giving up becoming the mindless drone so many people want me to become but then i remember my dad and brother who taught me to think, my great aunt for when to stand up and say ENOUGH and fight to the very last.
As a driver or passenger of a vehicle, we often see on motorways trucks or vans with a sign on the back saying "hows my driving? Phone 0845 12345678".
DeleteWell, on the walls of every JCP and every provider office there should be a sign asking people to rate the service they receive along with a phone number, postal address, web site and email contact clearly highlighted.
Mark Hoban was on the Panorama prog last week stating that the WP had a complaints procedure. Kirsty McHugh tonight said similar. However, as they are both hearing first hand how the WP they both support is failing in two different ways, why on earth do they need to wait for further complaints? Why not act NOW on the information given?
What stuns me on the UJM there are 72 apps for a work away position,working for St John's ambulance,going door to door begging for donations...is this the best that they can do?
ReplyDeleteI bet that's an agency position.
Deletehere's the link for anyone who wants to listen-
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qdx83
this happened to me at my a4e referral: the adviser was basically a snake oil salesman trying to convince me to join a commission-only sales outfit going door-to-door selling solar panels. no salary, just commission-based on earnings whilst traveling about a 120 mile radius every day [i don't drive]. There was no reimbursement for travel costs. Disgraceful, really... but it gets worse. There were vague threats of a sanction if i didn't accept this 'offer of work' even though there was no salary or no guarantee of any earnings whatsoever for that matter. this 'threat' hung over my head for about a month before i finally got a written response from a4e confirming in writing that my benefits wouldn't be stopped if i didn't become a self employed solar panels salesman [the letter was very specific that this didn't cover any other roles, just this one].
Okay, rant over. You are doing God's work with the blog mate- thank you so much.
I was given 'The hard sell' on going self employed just before Christmas. Had to sit through Ten minutes of A4e saying how wonderful being self employed was (and how i can still claim benefits if i don't earn any money too)! Alas, when i told them I would need at least 30 grand to get started they soon parked me,,, again.
ReplyDeleteWork Programme companies get £15,000 for each person on Employment & Support Allowance they get into employment for 2 years. As the incentive for the person on benefits to get a job is perhaps only 10% more than they get in benefits, it is hardly surprizing that the Work programme is failing miserably. If those on benefits were offered £15,000 by the government if they managed to stay off benefits for 2 years then the number coming off benefits would be dramatic. The Government recognizes that those at the top need incentives, but seems to be more interesed in enriching people like Emma Harrison and her parasitic A4E company than providing work incentives for the poorest in our society and expects those in the bottom to be satisfied in being no more than slaves.
ReplyDeleteBritain in finished thanks to our policians and their hangers on!!!!
The whole problem with the WP is the fact that they are using unqualified and inexperienced advisers to work with challenging requirements of clients and expected to work to unrealistic targets with a huge workload, meaning that they have no time to spend exploring all options for individual clients and lead them to cutting corners and pushing people into inappropriate situations and effectively setting individuals up to fail.
ReplyDeleteFrom conversations with providers, it appears that frontline WP staff are increasingly drawn from sales backgrounds rather than being experienced or qualified ETE professionals, never mind any sort of specialism within that.
DeleteYou also touch on a related and important problem; that frontline staff are working to what are, in effect, extremely short-term performance targets in a programme that is, at least nominally, incentivised to deliver long-term results. That tension, in combination with large caseloads and high churn of staff is pretty much guaranteed to deliver the wrong sort of service.
WP is about as much use as a chocolate fire guard, i am currently on one in leeds, i have got no help whatsoever in the 3 months i have been there, i was promised some new shoes for an interview, never got them, i was promised a cscs course, arrived on the day and not able to get funding for me..... i have had as many personal advisers in as many months and the latest cant even remember my name ( how professional )
ReplyDeletea4e in leeds is a complete joke, i am there tomorrow for some self employment advise, lets see how that goes.......