Let's just think about what was going on in Doncaster. It would be quite normal, in a group session dealing with, say, interviews, to talk about the need to be scrubbed up and well turned out. It could well be that one or two people in such a group have obvious problems with personal hygiene. It should then be up to the adviser to talk to those individuals privately. Maybe they are homeless. Maybe they have mental health issues. But the idea that you need to teach a "class" on washing and using toilet paper is extraordinary. I'd love to know the reactions of the vast majority of the class.
But then there's the issue of Olliff-Cooper actually tweeting this. What did he think he was doing? It's a vile insult to unemployed people forced onto the Work Programme with A4e. It says to potential employers that there's no point in even looking at these primitive savages. And that can't do much to help A4e's profits. This from the man who is A4e's director of policy and strategy!
This is beyond appalling!
ReplyDeleteIf these comments had been directed at any ethnic group there would be uproar but it is legally permissible to attack the unemployed in this vile fashion.
There needs to be a law that makes the incitement to class hatred a crime.
It just goes to show you one thing..Now we know what was in that elusive Black Box,is this really the best they can do? Answer+YES and to think it will only cost £5Bn.
ReplyDeleteSo Jonny taxpayer is paying private companies five billion pounds, to hold classes teaching people how to wash.
DeleteThis comment exemplifies everything that is wrong with the work programme.
so now the reason why people cannot find employment is because they are dirty, don't wash, and are not potty trained.
I don't have a washing machine. This isn't because I am dirty it is because I CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY ONE. I have to use a laundrette to clean my cloths, which costs at least £30 per time. This £30 comes from the £71 per week I receive in Job Seekers Allowance.
Consequently, I have to ration how often I wash clothing, and also what I wash. I also have to wash many items of clothing by hand, which is difficult as I live in a small flat and do not have adequate facilities to dry them.
When I have to go outside and face the world I shower twice a day, but on days I stay in side I don't because the shower uses electricity to heat water.
I used to use cheap disposable razor blades, but decided to use more expensive ones as no matter how careful I as I cut myself after every shave. I pay around £8.00 for three and make them last for as long as possible which means they get replaced once a month.
A hair cut costs £10 and so I have to wait until the last moment to have it trimmed, because I CANNOT AFFORD to visit a barber regularly.
So rather than organising seminars to teach people how to wash themselves, maybe this half-wit should understand that £71 is not a lot of money to live on every week and maintaining the bear minimum of personal hygiene is the absolute best that many of us can do.
I know, Mkmky. At £5bn, it is cheap at the price.....
DeleteIn the words of that great Russian mathematician Lobachevsky:
“Plagiarise, Plagiarise!
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes
So don’t shade your eyes
But plagiarise, plagiarise, plagiarise!
Only remember, please, always to call it "research."”
(My thanks to Tom Lehrer, who was a
Professor of Maths at Harvard when I were a nipper. He explained Lobachevsky’s teachings to millions of others, including to me.)
Thanks also, again, to Gissajob and Anonymouse, who have explained that A4E could run mandatory courses in the subject of “post defecation clean-up.” The instructions can be plagiarised from the Internet, so Tom Lehrer was definitely a prophet as well as a professor and I believe he is still alive.
I agree with Lobachevsy. Why figure it out by yourself when you can plagiarise?
http://www.howtowipeyourbutt.com/
Ton Lehrer said that Lobachevsky said you can plagiarise the Index from an old Vladivostock telephone directory.
Now then, this looks like £5bn quid to several people other than A4E.
Between us all though, we can probably spare 10p for Jonty O-C, for this most original and brilliant of his ideas.
Who needs experts for Policy and Strategy when you can hire Jonty instead? Jonty will kill A4E’s business stone dead if he gets half a chance, clearly, now that he has abandoned his earlier promise to himself to stop gossiping about A4E’s affairs on Twitter.
I would like to see JOC held publicly accountable for his comments. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to go about it? What would be the appropriate forum to address questions directly to him to publicly justify himself?
ReplyDeleteYou could try your MP, Channel 4 News or any other news media.
Deletei would suggest contacting him directly via twitter LOL
ReplyDeleteI'm writing a letter to my local MP tomorrow, and will post it on Monday.
ReplyDeleteThis person is being given thousands of pounds by the government to help unemployed people find work. It's bad enough that A4E is missing all its targets, but now a representative of their company is making disgusting remarks designed to demean, degrade and humiliate.
I agree. this is the worse kind of sterotyping, and does nothing to build the confidence of the unemployed.
Deleteeven worse, it is essentially this man's jobs to find unemployed people work. all snobbish comments like this do are enforce the stereotype of lazy, unkempt, foul smelling dole scum that in my experience, doesn't exist [and if it does, it is a tiny fraction of claimants]
DeleteI'm wondering if this is JOCs' idea of a wind-up? If not, and it is true, then he is even more stupid than I gave him credit for.
ReplyDeleteAmusing on one level. Ridiculous on another. It clearly shows A4e and perhaps the W2W sector in general are acting like headless chickens with no clear direction. Thus thy have to be seen to be doing something, anything to justify their existence. Hence these patronising lessons on washing and toilet training!
ReplyDeleteI would love to be a spider on the wall to observe just what the adviser giving these lessons looks like. I do hope they look pristine and well turned out every time!
I am minded to mention Ch4's Benefit Busters. Remember the episode where one of the A4e advisers (wont mention his name here)mentions he has targets to meet and if he does not meet them HE'D be attending A4e as a client! His appearance was pretty shabby. His hair was a mess and he needed a good shave. The same can be said for Job Centre some staff I could mention who look rather unkempt. There are a couple I could mention who seemed to wear the same clothes all the time. At least they did when I saw them.
If both JCP and WP advisers do not look the part, then how can they give tidiness and hygiene lessons to others?
Historian makes a good point. What if a client is homeless? How are they going to wash effectively, it at all? Mental health issues compound things even further. As I said earlier, someone in this predicament has bigger issues than not having a job, as important as that is.
Everybody with a twitter account should re tweet his comments so that as many people as possible get to see what type of person is involved with a company funded by the tax payer.
ReplyDeleteI don't have a twitter account, but I do have a facebook one, and will defo repost it.
DeleteThese courses are not uncommon.I was mandated onto an Employability and Skill course in 2012 for 4 weeks and one of the sessions was a course on how to wash your armpits,wash your feet and shave. These courses are an insult to anyone unfortunate who has to attend them.
ReplyDeleteBy the way at the end of the 4 weeks you do receive a Mickey Mouse qualification not good enough to wipe your backside with!
Just how did you sit through this rubbish?
DeleteAnonymous:
DeleteI think you were unfortunate to have to do this course for 4 weeks - I did the same one back in february 2012, at this point they had just started running them and they were only for 5 days.
Insulting was how I described it, and I questioned how I could earn the 4 OCR certificates in such a short period of time - I never did get an answer but got my certificates.
Apparently also via JontyOC, they have mental health specialists working for them, and nhs support as well. So a4e will now be able to diagnose mental health problems in each monthly visit? (mine have gone down to 10 mins a month).
ReplyDeleteI am Greenwoods4727 btw
Hi, The Anonymouse
DeleteI am no expert on the workings of Twitter but @jontyOC’s original, ill-considered, offensive two tweets now seem to have been removed from Twitter? Does this mean that your own tweet-back has been removed as well?
No, it's still there. Only the first tweet has been removed. Some interesting conversation, but no real contrition.
DeleteYou can never delete anything from the net, Screen shots, copied messages. It is unusual that he came online on a Sunday night to make those comments. If he has nothing to hide.. as so many other have said before. Unemployment can affect mental health of people, I am concerned that such "courses" could make a persons depression even worse.
DeleteUnemployment while never a good thing is bearable. but the work programme can tip many over the edge with ther constant belittling of people the same with jobcenters.
DeleteIf the work programme actually did what is said on the tin, then I would have no problem. However we have seen and experienced the true state of the work programme, If there are no jobs or evena massive reduction of jobs as happens in a recession, then the work programme will NOT work. Until money is spent on creating jobs then nothing will change. In part I blame employers, some do not want to take the chance of hiring the unemployed, and yes I Object to forcing people to work for free, however if this is a choice a person has then i have no problem.
DeleteThis brings me to the latest news the Cait Reilly ruling is in Need more information from a newspaper/source but looks like all but the MWA are not mandatory anymore.
Disgusting! I am part of the WP, but so far have not had any trouble with them. I was attending a course in 2012 ''employability'' and the trainer discussed personal hygiene, but nothing this bad! I am studying for a good job, and to treat me as dole scum is just annoying, what a total snob Mr Cooper is! Most ppl claiming benefits do not smell!!
ReplyDeleteI agree with Anonymous (4:22 am). I can't afford the launderette so have to wash clothes in a bucket, bath or sink. There is nowhere to dry them, not even outside any more, so right now I can't wash anything.I wash myself (sink, cold water) every day. Don't shave. My room is not a flat so all the facilities I have PARTIAL access to are shared, I can't let the landlord or housemates catch me secretly washing stuff.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing these tories don't get, is that if you are disabled enough for it to be an issue, then no matter how much you wash yourself you can't always 'stay clean'. Even in that state you are forced to go to jobcentres, work programmes and workfare including outdoor physical work. And blamed because the disability causes certain consequences with your body!
These issues came up today. The jobcentre ask stupid questions like 'how are you' or 'how are things', and pretending to be briefly nice to you, the real reason is to catch out anyone truthfully answering they feel ill. You have to answer noncommittally, if you say 'I'm great' then that is lying, which they can prosecute you for. If you admit how sick you are they either say you are lying, or they stop your benefit.
I doubt they'd understand about compression of the spinal cord causing numbness and other problems, so I don't bother. Besides it's hardly right to expect people to tell these creeps their most embarrassing medical info.
Later today in the jobcentre (I was struggling to breathe for the last few days, and today coughed lightly twice in the jobcentre and thought nothing of it) the staff and the security guard started joking to eachother about me, saying really bad things and then they started imitating coughing (like it was a fake attempt) and calling me a faker like an imitation of me.
I've had a form of epilepsy for over 50 years, and was banned for life, without appeal or representation, from my profession, education. With that sort of background, no hope of anything else, just senseless 'retraining' courses in the basics of what I could already do. I'd taught languages, but had to take remedial English classes in a prison-like training centre. 20+ certificates gained, but never used. Ordered to operate heavy machinery - illegally - despite epilepsy. Asked by some DWP reps a few years ago to work voluntarily ('Big Society' style), and refused. It seems I'm unsafe if I can expect pay, but become safe if I work for free. And who would carry the insurance liability when - not if - I had an accident? No reply to either question.
ReplyDeleteTo Steve - I can't publish your comment because you are too explicit about a named office. But thanks for the story - very interesting.
ReplyDeleteIt's nothing from A4e but a story from a friend about a WP provided called Reed.
ReplyDeleteDuring the initial group interview a rubber chicken was help up and the group was told this is you on benefits, then a fluffy rubber chicken was shown to the group and they we told this is you with a job. The friend walked out and had his benefits stopped. You need to experience these WP providers to understand how batshit insane they are!
Unemployed people are treated like scum in this country, when I was out of work I was put on some work scheme and I had to fill plastic barrels with rubble and carry it 300 yards to a skip,slave labour is what it was.
ReplyDelete