Monday 22 October 2012

Training?

One of those "Top 50" tables appeared the other day on the Training Journal website.  A4e has made it into their top 50 training businesses.  Their definition of "training" is quite elastic.  21 of their 50 companies are in the "employment training" sector.  But it's fiscal success which is the criterion, not how successful they are at training.
And that raises the question of what actual training is available through A4e's w2w operation.  Leave aside such little courses as Basic Food Hygiene and Health and Safety, and also basic literacy and numeracy.  What actual skills training is being provided?  I'm not saying there's none.  I just haven't heard of any.  The "tailored support" supposedly available in that black box doesn't seem to include the up-skilling that the long-term unemployed really need.  Some qualifications are essential before you can get particular jobs; the CSCS card in construction, for instance, or the SIA licence for the security industry.  But people say that the providers (not just A4e) won't pay for this.  Former professionals require refresher courses which they can't afford themselves, but these are not forthcoming.  Someone genuinely wanting to become self-employed or freelance can't get the advice and training he needs.
Is this unfair?

13 comments:

  1. Unfair yes. Ineffective definitely.

    Under the Work Programme providers are paid for results, i.e., job outcomes, not training or helping participants achieve qualifications.

    The idea that participants need training and qualifications to help them get work seems to be out of fashion with the Programme designers and to have been conveniently ignored by decision makers.

    It has been suggested that the percentage of people helped into employment would have been about the same without any intervention at all. Could that be because in the black box of tricks not much of value is actually provided?

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    1. The idea that participants need training and qualifications to help them get work seems to be out of fashion with the Programme designers and to have been conveniently ignored by decision makers.


      This seems to be one of the big problems - apart from an inability to understand computers in the older generation, and for which they don't get adequate training (ie BBC webwise, which seems to be what A4E use, isn't intensive enough), in general people need things like licence renewal, not even a new qualification. Driving licence, CSCS card, SIA card. And while A4E (and probably other providers too) say they'll pay for these things if you have a guaranteed job, you're not going to get a guaranteed job if you temporarily don't have a driving licence or whatever, even if you say that your WP provider will pay for you to get one as soon as you get a job offer.

      I think there's no doubt though that the providers (advisors and trainers) themselves know qualifications are necessary, they just don't have the available cash to pay for the required number of people to get them either as renewals or from scratch.

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    2. "apart from an inability to understand computers in the older generation" - that's too sweeping. Many older people are more capable with IT than youngsters.

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    3. ""apart from an inability to understand computers in the older generation" - that's too sweeping. Many older people are more capable with IT than youngsters."
      Being of advanced years myself and having seen high degrees of computer illiteracy amongst those much younger for once I agree with Historian (I'll try not to make a habit of it). Then I did use to work for a software company.

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    4. Actually there are 2 basic types of unemployment:
      Type 1. There are jobs but the labour pool available is insufficently or wrongly skilled to fill them. This type of unemployment can be mitigated by re-training and upskilling. This will take time.
      Type 2. There are insufficent jobs for the available unemployed. No amount of training will alter the total of unemployed (though it will affect which individuals get the available work).

      In reality every scenario is a mixture of the two types - what we have at the moment is probably 90% type 2 so although training and education is desirable and will have an effect in the long term it is not a short term solution to the unemployed/underemployed problem. Job creation and job "stimulation" are the effective means of reducing unemployment. In truth this is out of the hands of providers - it is up to the government to do this. it's just a crying shame to see billions being wasted on ineffective (in macro terms) Work Programmes when the money could and should be so much better spent.
      It's spending money making parachutes for the Titanic - parachutes certainly work and save lives (if you don't believe me try jumping out of a plane without one) but in the event of a shipwreck give me a lifejacket every time.

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  2. All I can see of the training these providersd offer is that it's incredibly basic stuff. While I endorse people that need it getting these skills, such as literacy and numeracy, I have yet to see any evidence or even willingness on the providers' part to offer anything worthwhile or even close to it. The Salvation Army flat out refuse to consider offering anything other than 'jobsearch'.

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  3. I suppose that I should be grateful,after 9 months my Adviser arranged for my CSCS Card,passed,but they were unaware that this is only the first step.I downloaded the correct forms and arranged a work trial,but they do not have a procedure in place to deal with this,you would of thought that before starting this process that obtaining an end result would of been the main goal...Bitch over

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    1. 'I downloaded the correct forms and arranged a work trial,but they do not have a procedure in place to deal with this'.. i dont quite understand what you meant by this, you need a work trial to get a CSCS card? or am i missing something?

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    2. Yes,the application has to be signed off by somebody qualified in the trade,there are various cards with different jobs ,CSCS is the basic card just to be allowed on the job site(as my WP subcontractor is the Council,this should not be a problem,but amazingly it is)

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    3. The reason i asked if i was missing something is because i complete these applications all the time for my clients with or without construction experience and the organisation paying for the card can'sign it off'. go onto cscs construction skills, find the application form under craft operatives and at the bottom of the form in section C it wil ask for the employers name and address, this is where your WP provider can put their address. I have checked this out directly with CSCS construction skills who confirmed the training provider or organisation paying for the card can use their address. This shouldnt really be an issue and it seems they are shying away from paying the 30.00 quid it costs for the card. Either that or you have a very uninformed advisor.Take that info back to them. Good Luck, hope you get your card.

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  4. I was thinking about the people who have had 20+ years working in heavy engineering and electronics, but can't use computers because it's not necessary in their line of work, perhaps there are more younger people who can't use computers around, I don't know.

    Courses are permitted BTW as long as your WP provider allows you to go on the course, so anyone wanting to become self-employed can just do what I have done and take a P/T course at a local college (most of the fees get paid for you because you're on JSA) to get the necessary qualifications. The only catch is you have to give up the course if you find full time employment, but in the current climate, the longer you've been unemployed the more difficult it is to find a job so I'd have thought they'd be pushing for more people to do this, especially as the providers don't pay for anything and then hopefully get their payment at the end when you get your new job with your new qualifications.....

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  5. I asked if they would help me with advice or help finding refresher courses when i first joined them (computer programming) since ive been out of work a long while and out of uni longer still, they told me their was no call for that sort of work in the employment market and did nothing at all. I find that odd since I have emails every single day of the week looking for people with these skills but im too rusty to apply for them.

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    1. Similarly when I was with a4e two years ago, my request that my computer graphics skills were updated, was declined and I was then told by the Job Centre to do this myself. Eh with what? It seems obviously nothing has changed ..... Approaching State Pension it had been my only hope.

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